After discovering Playing with Fire and joining the mastermind about 6 months ago, I’ve been getting 1:1 text game coaching from “Indian PE” for the last ~4 months. When I look back, I’m amazed how much my text, online, and dating game has evolved in that time. Learning from someone who is significantly better than you, and embracing the mentoring process by letting go of your ego (many students are unwilling to actually let go and do this, and thus don’t learn nearly as quickly as they could or should), accelerates your learning process by a factor of 10x or more, I’m convinced.
In that time, I’ve posted a number of “LRs” across the community. While those certainly offer value, this time – and likely in the future – I’m going to take it a step further, breaking down the entire messaging exchange and the mindsets I have, including the evolution that I have gone through in understanding and responding to women’s messages. It’s a good way to add value to the traditional “LR” while also helping me reinforce my learnings.
With that, I’m going to post one of the most unique lays I’ve ever had. Besides being a detailed breakdown, this is also a good story of persistence and demonstration that “rules” about what you can and can’t do on dates and getting laid are bullshit. This is a girl who flaked on me numerous times, as we’d matched at least 3-4 times in the past. We have had a date scheduled, multiple other interactions, and one way or another, she’d eventually flake. I was actually quite sure it would happen again, but I think my improved text game + improved “idgaf” mindset were what sealed the deal.
Ok, onto the texts and breakdown!
So, we had matched on Tinder in the past, Bumble this time. No matter. I reply to her open playfully, and then I follow that up with something that’s also playful but also tries to set her into the chasing frame. She partially bites, agreeing to the date enthusiastically (“So let’s DO IT”), but also tries to keep control of the frame of her as the prize by with the “girl I went on a date with one time” message.
Rather than seizing the part where she enthusiastically agrees (which comes off as overeager – a mistake I often made that would result in girls who’d stop replying), I instead hit her back with one of my favorite things (I use this both in person and on text). I am truthfully not that into one night stands, so I get her to qualify herself that she’s not like that, and at the same time, slightly reinstate the frame that I’m controlling this conversation.
Now that I’ve reasserted control of the conversation here, and since she’s already clearly interested in meeting, I pitch the wine date. I know that I’m about to basically be unavailable for the next 7-10 days, so I try to push on the Valentine’s Day (same night lay) a little bit. Note I don’t directly push for it, but instead playfully probe deeper into why she’s saying she won’t go out with me today. She doesn’t budge on it though, so I back off.
Here, I’m trying to seed the date at my place a with the “Do you like pasta” question. It’s not obvious yet that my intent is for her to come for my place, so I want to test for her willingness to do so. She says “Please make me some,” which clearly indicates she’s willing to come over. As a very good home cook, the cooking date has become a big part of my repertoire, it defuses some of the shier girls’ concerns about coming straight to my condo for the first date.
At this point, she throws what I consider to be a bit of a shit test at me about my photos. Probably a sign I need to do some more adjusting with my photo selections. Before, this question would have really thrown me off my game. Now, I handle it pretty smoothly. I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s a joke – who the fuck gets professional photos taken for their grandma – but she takes it seriously, which is totally fine here.
Here, she starts to ask me some questions to deal with concerns she has. I am not actually 5’8″, just barely 5’6″, but everyone makes themselves look a little better on dating apps. Rather than answering, I initially deflect the question, and flip it back to her. Ultimately, I do answer her question, but I avoid answering it directly, because one of my cardinal rules is that I do not directly lie to a woman. Lying creates drama and hurts retention, so I avoid it at all costs.
I decide to be a bit honest here about my position on lying, as I’ve decided that injecting a little more authenticity will build her comfort and investment levels. But I also use it to try to get her to qualify herself a bit more. She doesn’t, rather she flips it back to being playful, so I run with playful banter again. Fortunately, I had just done an exercise with my improv team where we created outlandish names for each other, so I enjoyed the opportunity to come up with an absurd name for her.
At this point, I feel her investment level is good, and we’ve built a bit of comfort, too, by addressing some of her concerns. I move back toward seeding the date, and specifically, a date at my place.
Now, she’s just checking off her list of concerns about the date. I make it a bit funny to get at why she’s asking, because I can’t tell if she wants the answer to me having cats to be “yes” or “no”. I also use this to preemptively address a possible concern by mentioning the fact that I have a security guard here. I always bring girls in past the guard, and I try to mention it preemptively when it fits. I feel it makes for a comfortable place to meet for girls coming over on fuck dates (much as Alex addresses this concern when girls ask by saying “We’ll meet in the lobby first”).
A little bit more playful banter, and now we’re moving toward locking down the date. As I mentioned earlier, I’m basically booked constantly for the foreseeable future, so I try to get her set on something in my limited openings, which are just a handful of afternoons.
We end up agreeing on her coming at 12 PM on a Friday, which I’m concerned might be a tough time to close. But given that this girl had flaked a lot in the past, I felt the sooner, the better, so I agree and move it forward.
After she texts me, I start – maybe unnecessarily – by teasing her about her claim that her “phone is shit.” She doesn’t really jump into the banter with me here, so I just seal the date.
I always try to build a little more comfort after setting up a date, whether it happens by phone or text. I find it abrupt and awkward to set the date and then immediately end the conversation. So, I probe a little bit, using this as an opportunity to qualify her – I do legitimately think that girls with a creative side, such as musicians, are cool, because I’m not so blessed with creativity.
I reward her, give her a nugget about myself, and then let the conversation end on a high note. Then, the morning of the date, I confirm with her.
She calls asking if she can come an hour early – I am more or less free, so I roll with it. This ends up being a pretty wild experience. My first ever first straight-to-my-place date close before 12 PM on a weekday. I send the standard “that was a lot of fun” message afterward, as I’d like to see her again for the lock-in, and I’m hoping she will start to seed that.
This is a bonus screenshot, more in the relationship management than gaming category, but I think a helpful one.
Rather than suggesting round 2, as I’d hoped, she raises a little drama, saying that I somehow made her feel like I didn’t want to see her again, and implying I lied to her about my intentions. Rather than apologizing, or trying to explain myself, which would be terribly beta and would lose the frame entirely, I reply nonchalantly and let her try to justify her statement.
As I expected, she backpedals a little. I’m not satisfied with this because it’s not actually an apology, so I call it out clearly, but non-reactively. At this point, she gives me a lengthy apology, which I accept and move forward to seed date #2. The way I handled this — by not ceding my ground and not letting her get away with it — will help ensure she keeps me classified in the alpha-lover frame.